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March 29, 2005

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indi seems to think that morquendi and i are attacking chanuka on a personal basis.

indi said : “I’m still not clear why you and Morquendi attack him personally without taking him on points”.

i think it’s impossible to attack someone personally, if you dont KNOW them personally. and i dont know chanuka. and i’m pretty sure, niether does morq. sure indi, chanuka maybe a cool guy, but this is not my problem. my problem isn’t with his personality. my problem is with the comment he left on morquendi’s blog . his statement is what bugs me. his opinions are what bug me. and to a certain extent, your opinions mirror your personality.

i dont have a problem with chanuka as a person, but i DO have a problem with the point he tried to make. so indi, i DID attack (if you must call it that) his POINTS, and not his persona. i dont attack peole. but i also dont stand being told that the poor people in this country are worthless scum.

chanuka seems to deny the fact that poverty is one of the biggest issues the country faces. THIS i have a problem with. he seems to think that poor people are poor because of some choice they made to gain the state’s sympathy and life long support, and not because they were inevitably born into poverty. THIS i have a problem with. he seems to think that the poor community of sri lanka are pains in the asses who rip the upper class and upper middle class people like chanuka and his family off. THIS i have a problem with. he doesn’t even the poor people as being worthy of his measly taxes. THIS i have a problem with.

bringing in examples of indonesia, south korea etc are useless. fact is, sri lanka is NOT those countries. they have different social, econonmic and governmental structures, and therefore see different results in implementing certain policies. we are NOT them. and since we are NOT them, and we are US, the point is not to be THEM, but to be OURSELVES to the best that we can. the point would be to do whatever works best for US.

i am not attacking him personally. i am attacking his POINTS.

my intention wasn’t to get involved in this argument, and i think even the initial debators have gotten hugely side tracked along the way. :)

scourge, dayani, Mahangu, morquendi and Iromi, and whoever else left their opinions and veiws, thanks for the insightful comments.

indi, i see nothing wrong with having called chanuka an asshole, or a brat. we didn’t dub him those things out of personal malice. but thats what society usually calls someone who doesn’t give a damn about anyone other than themselves. remember that people can’t read your thoughts. your actions and your words say it all about who you are, and what kind of mentality you have. you are solely responsible for your actions, and as a consequence will be judged by them. it’s natural. remember, that is what society calls someone who simply refuses to CARE.

ps - i refuse to further participate in this argument! it’s pointless, circular, never ending and pretty basically futile. :) don’t forget, everyone is entitled to their opinion! cheers!

134 Comments »

The URI to TrackBack this entry is: http://electra.blogsome.com/2005/03/29/10/trackback/

  1. […] quendi has more to say about Chanuka. Indi is right in there with a comment to defend him. Electra’s got more to say… Comments » The URI to TrackBack […]

    Pingback by Kottu Meme Watch :: Hot Threads Update… :: March :: 2005 — March 30, 2005 @ 3:09 am

  2. […] quendi has more to say about Chanuka. Indi is right in there with a comment to defend him. Electra’s got more to say… Comments » The URI to TrackBack […]

    Pingback by Kottu Meme Watch :: Hot Threads Update… :: March :: 2005 — March 30, 2005 @ 3:10 am

  3. Dig dig dig dig ….. thats all I can say for Chanuka. Sucker.

    He speaks about Morquendi’s “upbringing” in morquendi’s blog. All I can say for Chanuka is that for someone who believes that education is a ‘priviledge’ and has some strange ideas about the “poor people”, its nice to think that he had a perfectly wonderful, well balanced, open minded and kind hearted upbringing.

    And just to save some time, I don’t particularly care whether anyone thinks of my comments and that I’m personally attacking Chanuka. I don’t know Chanuka and I’m exercising my right to express my opinion. Just like he did. And its early in the morning and reading stupid shit like this just wakes u up and gets u going :)

    I mean, we all imagine there being people this, but actully hearing what they have to say is just mindblowing. And for the record, Morquendi and Electra are not narrow minded people who are not open to other people’s views. But I don’t think anyone is going to stand for the statements that this guy made.

    And I just couldn’t resist when I read Chanuka’s comment “Going by the words you use I can only assume that you had a very bad upbringing when your were young.”

    Comment by Iroms — March 30, 2005 @ 7:01 am

  4. This reminds me of the US Presidential Debates when Kerry said that America should submit to an ‘International Truth Standard’. Bush spun that out into a long tail of John Kerry giving the UN a veto over US Foreign Policy, but none of that was in the original quote

    Here the sentence that riles you guys up is: Why should the tax payers’ hard earned money be spent limitlessly to provide ‘Pin Adyapanaya’ to so-called poor? Out of this you extract the long rap sheet:

    “chanuka seems to deny the fact that poverty is one of the biggest issues the country faces. THIS i have a problem with. he seems to think that poor people are poor because of some choice they made to gain the state’s sympathy and life long support, and not because they were inevitably born into poverty. THIS i have a problem with. he seems to think that the poor community of sri lanka are pains in the asses who rip the upper class and upper middle class people like chanuka and his family off. THIS i have a problem with. he doesn’t even the poor people as being worthy of his measly taxes. THIS i have a problem with.”

    Unfortunately, Chanuka never said those things. They’re certainly offensive, but he never wrote them. All he wrote was:

    Why should the tax payers’ hard earned money be spent limitlessly to provide ‘Pin Adyapanaya’ to so-called poor?

    Now, taking him on points might include answering that question, rather than inventing 10 other ideas you can attribute to his malevolent personality.

    As to points, I think the difference is between seeing the poor as charity cases to be simply given money, and seeing them as people capable of lifting themselves up. The government takes the former policy, but grass roots NGOs like Sarvodaya take the latter route and empower the poor rather than simply giving them stuff. Rather than going into a village and gifiting latrines Sarvodaya Shramadana will get the villagers to work and dig the latrines themselves.

    In the same way, SEEDS empowers small business not by simply giving them money because they’re poor, but by giving them opportunities like everyone else. SEEDS gives them loans, and they pay them back. Like any other small businessmen.

    In my latest set of FAQs I go over how students in India fund their Higher Education through CitiBank loans, and I link to an article which describes similar cases in Brazil, China, Indonesia, etc.

    These people are not invalids and they don’t need welfare. The poor people I’ve met in Sarvodaya villages are capable of working their asses off and participating in the economic system. They damn sure have to work 10 times as hard as me, and they do. They don’t need my charity. It’s a nice feudal system to simply give them money, but it’s easier to give them the opportunities to help themselves. Not ’special’ opportunities, just the same opportunities as everyone else, loans, investment in yourself, and rewards later in life.

    bringing in examples of indonesia, south korea etc are useless.

    So, I presume the only valid resource on Sri Lanka is the opinions of you and Morquendi? I would mention the local sources you cite, but you don’t.

    Finally,

    i think it’s impossible to attack someone personally, if you dont KNOW them personally. and i dont know chanuka. and i’m pretty sure, niether does morq. sure indi, chanuka maybe a cool guy, but this is not my problem. my problem isn’t with his personality.

    The title of your post was “Invasion of the Brat” and Morquendi’s was “Asshole Alert”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Brat and Asshole generally refer to personality. You were talking specifically about Chanuka and calling him a ‘Brat’. This is a blog and that’s all good, it’s just funny that you seem to think what you’ve done is impossible. If calling someone a ‘Brat’ can be defined as a debate on points, then I have truly entered the White House.

    Comment by indi — March 30, 2005 @ 7:07 am

  5. […] pped; focus shifted to more pressing issues like the TEWS. However Iroms made a comment on Electra’s blog. Indi followed soon after with another steaming […]

    Pingback by Kottu Meme Watch :: More on Universities… :: March :: 2005 — March 30, 2005 @ 8:10 am

  6. […] king a break for three days and Electra (http://electra.blogsome.c…) is bowing out after trashing Chanuka roundly for being rich and speaking. I have yet to see any particular evidence or re […]

    Pingback by indi.ca » Blog Archive » Morquendi Declares Blog Strike — March 30, 2005 @ 11:21 am

  7. Ok i’m just a little confused after reading 3 dif blogs and comments on this topic.

    Just wanted to say something that came to mind when reading Indi’s comment above. I agree, its always best to empower people and show them how to generate income instead of giving em stuff and letting em live on welfare.

    But how does this apply to uni ? “Why should the tax payers’ hard earned money be spent limitlessly to provide ‘Pin Adyapanaya’ to so-called poor?” says Chanuka. But isn’t that also a way of empowering village kids who can get a degree and make something for themselves and their families? Ultimately, what the free ed system does is exactly what Indi speaks of Sarvodaya doing.

    Comment by Iroms — March 31, 2005 @ 4:04 pm

  8. Indi, when you make assumptions based on what I or Mahangu or Electra write I guess it’s ok. But when someone makes an assumption based on what you or Chanuka write it’s not ok. You’re right and everyone else is wrong.

    Thanks man. I see the light.

    Comment by Morquendi — April 3, 2005 @ 5:55 pm

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